Transcript 0:00 [upbeat music] Welcome to Taste Land. I am your co-host, Francis Zeerer. And I'm Daisy Aliotto. 0:11 And today we are speaking with Carly Silverman, who is a comedy, culture, and perfume writer, a producer for TV and video, and host of the new podcast from HelloScope, Smell That Movie, which... 0:23 where she [chuckles] interviews people about what movie they would wanna smell like. Simple, but extremely effective concept, and- It's like a-... I'm a little bit jealous. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 0:33 That seems like something that, that, that does seem like a limited collaboration that Dirt would do with like- 100%... Byredo or something. Ruby or something. Yeah. Yeah. The Ruby. That's probably more fitting. 0:44 Um- [laughs] Anyways, how are you, Daisy? I'm good. I, um, am busy. Uh. [laughs] Booked as well? Booked and busy, yeah. Um, last Friday we had the launch party for Clone, which was really fun. 1:01 Um- I wish I'd... I should have come through. This is the sign of a good party for me, which is probably not the sign of a good party for other people. Um, it's when people don't recognize me or know who I am- Yeah... 1:14 because it means that I've brought out... met new people, and part of it was Boys' Club invited their list. We invited our list. But when people are like, "So what do you do?" I'm like, "Oh- Who put this on? [laughs]... 1:27 this is my party." But not even in like a how dare you ask me what I do way. No, no, no. Yeah. Just in a like, well, this is great 'cause now I get to ask you how you heard about this. Mm-hmm. 1:36 Um, and it's gonna become market research for me. The pleasure of talking to somebody without like a hint of sycophancy. Exactly. Mm. I mean, yeah. Phew. [laughs] I, I would hate that. Um, Ben bartended. 1:51 He volunteered to. Hm. Um, and- You can trust him to- He- Yeah... I can trust him, and he achieved flow state in the course- Oh... of bartending. And- Has he, has he bartended pr- He did. Yeah, yeah... beforehand? 2:05 Exactly. Okay. Yes, he has. That's, that's one of the few... That's like the only, uh, restaurant job I never did. I guess I n- didn't ser- serve either, but I wish I'd bartended. Yeah. 2:13 Well, I was like, dang, he's in a really good mood. I... Is he gonna wanna go back to bartending now? 2:19 [laughs] Um, but I think it was just really nice for him to be able to feed off of the social interactions with that sort of built-in, you know, conversation piece, which is like- Mm... what do you want to drink? 2:30 Um, and that it was really nice to see him so excited, and we left, we both left in a really good mood. Elated. Elated, yeah. Mm-hmm. Did you have any, um, did you meet anybody, any of these new people? 2:43 Was there any like particularly good conversations that you wanna out on this podcast? 2:49 [laughs] Well, I did not get into conversation too deeply with any individual person because when I have an event, I always try to make sure like nobody's alone. Mm-hmm. 2:59 Um, and everyone has somebody to talk to, so I think- That's a good host... um, because I'm constantly like scanning the room a little bit, that doesn't necessarily make me the best conversationalist- Mm... 3:11 at my own party, but- You're a facilitator... I'm a facilitator. I was able to match-make some conversations that seemed- Oh... to go well. Well done. Yeah. 3:20 It's a lot of like, okay, I have to go greet this person, so now I'm going to deliver you to this person, and I'm gonna tell you a thing that you have in common, and then I'm gonna walk away. [laughs] Nice. Nice. 3:30 But yeah, it was really fun, and then, uh, this morning was a little busy 'cause Greta published the first half of a two-part series on where the next- Yes... 3:39 literary movement's gonna come from, and blank, and we came up with the equation that literary movement equals scene plus genre. Mm. 3:48 So the first half of the series is focused on what is a scene, and the second half [laughs] will be- Classic Daisy concept... focused on genre. Yeah. I mean, I'm in the- You're snobbish... article. I'm against scenes. 3:59 Well, I think it's like a scene contains usually a subculture. Mm-hmm. And, you know, people who are critical of scenes, which is throughout the article a- and foregrounded is like 4:13 they don't produce good work, and I agree. But subcultures do, and so I think a subculture morphing into a scene is sort of like a, a stopping point along the path to just being- Well, a subculture contains a scene... 4:26 absorbed into the mainstream. Right? A scene is a subset of a subculture. Um, I actually th- I think it might be the other way around. Hm. Maybe not, though. We gotta think about that some more. 4:37 Also, like- We'll have a round table... just the distinction between a scene and a community and people- Ah... 4:41 wanting to keep things community oriented rather than scene oriented, which is hard though, because once you have an exchange of like currency, which is usually like clout, that's when people want proximity to it without 4:55 being creative. Mm-hmm. Um, so I mean- Once it's reached like kind of an escape velocity. Exactly, and I think this could have been much longer. Probably could have been much shorter. 5:08 [laughs] Okay, how many, how many thousands we talking? Um, I think it's, I think it's 2,500 or 3,000 words. I gotta look- For just part one? Yeah. Um, maybe closer to 2,500. 5:20 We did add an appendix 'cause she talked to almost 20 people, and so- Jeez... if there were interesting quotes that we couldn't fit into the piece, we put them in the appendix- Oh... 5:30 of the piece as just like standalone pull quotes, which is not something that we've done before, but I think is like really effective. Um, and it was very fun to edit, and it was fun to talk about. 5:44 Um, but I always f- I should remember not to do big pieces on Tuesdays when we have to jump right into the podcast. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so hopefully nobody is like blowing up my phone with corrections. 5:57 I'm excited to read it. Um, I, it, it, it literally went out like half an hour before we jumped on here, so I [laughs] have to... I, I'm, I'm, I just opened it. Um, let's see. What am I saying? 6:07 "Book reviews are cruel-Um, period. That's just a, a pull quote I'm taking. Um [laughs] We can be. We don't want imitations of innocence. Uh, I'm gonna stop, but [laughs] but I am excited to read this. 6:20 Um, oh, this reminds me, I'm, I'm just still scrolling through the Luxe/Dirt essay competition. How's that going? Oh, there's still like a month left. 6:31 Well, really well, because the Economic Hardship Reporting Project contacted us and said that they wanna support it. And so we are able to increase the first prize from $1,000 to $1,800- 100%... 6:41 and add a runner-up prize for $1,000. Oh, wow. And these essays will now be published in three different locations rather than two, um, 'cause EHRP will publish on their site as well. 6:52 So hi, like, if somebody contacts me and they wanna contribute more money to something I really believe in, that's a huge win for me. Mm. Okay, speak on it. 7:02 Uh, your tweet from the other day, um- I knew you were gonna bring this up... yeah. Well, you just baited me into it, so. That really bothered me. I'm sorry. I don't know this woman. 7:10 I, I've been opening Substack more than I usually do. Okay, wait. Let, let me, let me explain for, for the listener here. 7:15 So basically you took a screenshot of, I think it was like a Substack note or a comment on a, on a, a Substack post, whatever, but it was this woman saying like, basically 7:26 offended that a brand approached her wanting to sponsor her newsletter. Um, and she was like, "Why would I take money if I don't have to, if I could... 7:36 E- Even if I, even if I need the money, why would I take m- why would I ever take sponsorships?" She said, "I'm reader-supported." I think if she had stopped there, that would've been one thing. But, like, she was... 7:46 There was a signaling in it. Like, she clearly thought higher of herself for having done this. Mm-hmm. 7:51 But then she ended it by saying, like, "Brands, like, you need to consider more of what you're doing, like, in advertising and maybe not, like, contribute to a kind of like waste and garbage, I guess, in the digital environment." 8:06 And I was like, "This is where your ignorance is showing." Like- The toothpaste is so far out of the tube, we don't even remember what the tube is. Like- True. 8:13 Like, how, how wonderful that she is among a very, very, very, very small slice of Substacks that can actually operate on being reader-supported. I don't know if she has another source of income. 8:23 But that money that you're turning down, they're not gonna be like, "Oh my God, she owned us. She's right." [laughs] We're gonna shut down our advertising. "We're just not gonna spend it. We're just not gonna spend it." 8:33 [laughs] No. It's gonna go to somebody else who possibly doesn't share your values, or it's going to go, uh, straight into Meta- Uh-huh... and Google Ads. 8:43 [smacks lips] And there are so many people working so hard to advocate to brands why they should be advertising in independent newsletter-forward media companies, and you couldn't think of one thing to do with that money, even give it away or donate it or create a contest for your readers or do something special for your readers? 9:05 I think it's just... You know, this person, I looked her up, 'cause I was thinking maybe she's older. This is like a very Gen X thing to do. Yeah, definitely. 9:13 Um, but she's only- I, I was by myself actually when I read it. I was like- She's only a few years older than me. Oh, wow. 9:18 And I think it's just, like, people have had very different experiences of what's going on right now, um, and how wonderful to be sheltered from that. 9:27 But I literally went from, like, reading the Los Angeles Review of Books synopsis of how many magazines had their NEA grants pulled to reading this, and it really upset me. 9:37 And, like, granted, I don't know who the brand is. Like- Mm... I said in my tweet, if it's Raytheon- Yeah... I understand. But, like, 9:45 part of being reader-supported is, um, like, your readers need to understand from you that you are part of a wider economic exchange in the creative world. 9:57 And I think if somebody brings you money, um, and you can't find a way to d- redistribute that to either improving the experience of your readers or helping somebody else in your orbit, like- Collaborating with somebody. 10:10 Mm... it's pretty sad. It's not, like, the statement that you think that you're making. And, like, it's going to discourage, like... I mean, maybe she said, "Talk to this person, talk to this person." Mm. 10:23 But, like, brands do not need to be discouraged from doing that k- type of spend. I think they need to be encouraged more. 'Cause like I said, the alternative is they're pouring it into Meta and Google. 10:35 Um, and so many other newsletters are not reader-supported. Yeah, it really- So many are not supported, period, as well. I was just like, this perspective is very, it's very ignorant. It's very immature. 10:49 Um, like it's us- your newsletter, you could do whatever you want with it. But, like, we are so past the point of turning down money being some sort of, like, badge of honor. 10:58 Um, I can guarantee you that money did not go anywhere good. Um, and you could have had complete control over how you spent it, and that's, to me, that's really sad. Mm-hmm. 11:07 The '90s died at least as early as with Kurt Cobain, so selling out is- Yeah. We're back to, like, selling out as the kind of the Robin Hood, um, opportunity of our era, so. Yeah. 11:21 Anyways, um, let's hand it over to Carly. We had a fun conversation about what the internet smells like, uh, about friction, our favorite theme. Um, and, uh, yeah, it was a good one. 11:35 [upbeat music] I, look, I scoured the internet, as I do when preparing for these podcasts. Terrifying. You're the most prolific- I don't, for the record. 11:48 [laughs] No, uh, Daisy always makes sure to distance herself from my sleuthing efforts. Um, but you're a really, really prolific Letterboxd user. Um, personally, I'm a Letterboxd user, but I don't... 12:01 I very rarely put in a review. I, you know, even, even a few words. You always put in at least a couple sentences. I admire that. Um, I would say that you're most pr- prolific-... social media. 12:11 Um, but the reason I'm [laughs] getting into this is two years ago you made a Letterboxd list, um, of movies people would wanna smell like, which is the concept of Smell That Movie- Yes... your new podcast. 12:25 So tell me how this Letterboxd list became a podcast two years later. Um, so a lot of this started during the quarantine. 12:35 I was on a bunch of group chats with my friends, and it was, like, our way to just, like, be still in touch with each other without seeing each other because, not to brag, uh, we were all very good at quarantining and- [laughs]... 12:48 like, really wanted to play it safe. Um, [laughs] as we mentioned earlier, I'm in New York, and it was a scary time to be here the whole time. 12:57 Um, and we would just kind of ask each other these questions throughout the day to just, like, think about and, like, have fun with the answers. 13:04 And I was kind of getting a little bit back into perfume at this point in my life. I've always loved perfume, but, um, as anybody who gets into perfume knows, it's, like, an extremely expensive hobby. 13:18 It certainly can be. And I've worked in media [laughs] um, in, all through my 20s, and I certainly couldn't afford it really as a hobby. 13:27 [laughs] Um, but I had gotten back into it in my sort of mid to late 20s through perfume writing. Mm. Um, because it's a absolutely insane form of writing that I'm really obsessed with. 13:40 And when I say perfume writing, I mean both people writing about perfume and also, like, the copywriting for perfume because it's, like, outlandish and beautiful and weird. 13:53 So I had posed the question to my friends, you know, "If you could smell like any movie, what would you smell like?" Uh, because I love perfume, I love movies, and I love a weird little cross-sensory thing. 14:04 It's like I will make, uh, playlists based on movies and based on feelings and based on fragrances. And it really, it stirred up the group chat. 14:14 I got a lot of really fun answers, um, that I wor- was logging in that Letterboxd [laughs] um, list. And they were asking their roommates and asking their boyfriends, um, and asking their partners. 14:27 I then, at that point in time I was single and on the apps, and I was using it as a bit of an opener. 14:33 It would, like, a little bit judge if I wanted to pursue the conversation, not based on answer, just based on, like, how much you were willing to engage with the question. [laughs] Ability to commit. Mm-hmm. 14:42 Yeah, because some, uh, you know, some guys would just, like, give you the shittiest, like... Oh, they'd be like, um... What was the one everybody would use the same that was just, like, a dumbass joke? Um, 14:54 oh, Human Centipede. And I'd be like, "All right." [laughs] Like, "Fuck off." Like, look, like I, I love comedy. I've been writing in the New York comedy scene for a decade, but I'm like, "Be funny. Be original. 15:04 Don't be hacky." So- Did anyone say Heat? [laughs] No one said Heat. Men love the movie Heat. That's a really good answer. I like that a lot. Um, but yeah, people were willing to engage. It was fun. 15:16 And, um, I started kind of, like, tracking it as a list for myself, and I would use it a lot at, like, parties and stuff as, like, a party question because, um, you know, I'm, I'm not a... 15:30 I- I hope I'm not setting myself up for failure here, not always the most engaging person to talk to. Um, [laughs] No, I think a prompt is so important. We, so we've done... 15:39 We haven't done one in a little bit, um, but we do these, like, dirt prompts in the newsletter. Mm. The most viral of all time is, um, is it better to desire or be desired? And- Oh, and for me, that's so easy. 15:56 What is it? Uh, be desired. Okay. C for me is WWD. Couldn't, couldn't disagree more. Could not disagree more. Other direction. Other direction. Really? I'm a to desire girl 100%. 16:05 But I will tell you, every time this question goes out in a survey, it ends up, like, about 50/50. It's, like, literally 50/50 of the population in a way that I've never seen any question break down before. 16:16 Um, and we'll go back to you in a second, but I was reminded- Yeah... of it because, um, I was coming home from the city last Friday, and there was a drunk girl on the train. 16:25 It was, um, you know, it was like, whatever it's called, city whatever, 'cause it was Mets and Yankees. So- Oh, the, the subway- Subway Series... Subway Series. Subway Series, yeah. Yes, exactly. 16:34 So drunk Yankees fans, drunk Mets fans, Metro North, and this girl is drunkenly asking everyone around you, "How many owls would you need to see before you freak out?" 16:46 [laughs] That's a really good and really funny question, and I love this girl. [laughs] And she's like- And on-... "Sir, you over there." [laughs] And the, and the guy's like, "Who? Who?" 16:55 In a city, in a city environment, two. Just two in a city environment, I'm freaking out. Just two? Yeah. It would take a lot more. Uh, me though. Most people... I've said three. 17:03 One of, one of her friends said 10, and she was like, "10 is crazy, bro." [laughs] I think for me it would be however many it would take to lift me and carry me away. A lot. You're a big guy. Yeah. Famously. 17:14 Well, I, I think- 20? [laughs]... owls to me have, like, a sort of, like, knowledgeable wisdom and mysticism about them that... And they don't belong in a city. Um, seeing one, I'd be like, "Well, New York's weird. 17:27 You never know." Seeing two, I'm like, "Something's afoot." Rest in peace, Flaco. Oh my God. Um, wait- Rest in peace, Flaco... I, I, so I wanna say I did, uh, before, when... 17:37 You know, when I, when I started, when I first, like, pulled up an episode of your podcast and I, and I listened to it, I was like, "Okay, well, what, what, what would my movie be?" And I, I picked a couple. Oh, please. 17:45 Um, and imagine my surprise, maybe I'm predictable, when I o- I opened up the Letterboxd list, and it was one of the 14 movies on the list. Wow. Were you into Billy? I'll, I'll ask you to guess. 17:58 I think it would either be Talented Mr. Ripley or In the Mood for Love. It is definitely [laughs] Talented Mr. Ripley. Yeah. Wow. She got your ass. That was my favorite movie. I mean, it's, I've... For many years, I... 18:08 Whenever I first saw that, I must've been, like, 14 or somethingFor many years I s- I, now I don't, I don't know what my favorite movie would be now, but it's long been one of my favorite movies. It's, it's classy. 18:17 I know, uh, talking about to desire or be desired, this is a movie that's, you know, a little bit all about that. Um- Mm... yeah, easy, easy answer. 18:25 It's like a, you know, it's the Italian-ness, it's the, it's the wealth, it's the, like, aspiration to wealth. It's, it, you know, it, what, it, the movie itself is a perfume ad. 18:36 I think my favorite movie's on the list too, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Um, now I feel like I'm, my, I'm gonna, like, be sexist in my answer here. Um, it, is it, is it Marie Antoinette maybe? No. It is Italian. 18:51 It might not be in your Letterboxd list, but it was in the release about the podcast. It was listed as one of the movies. Oh. Okay, what was it? The Great Beauty. Mm. Ah. For sure. 19:05 The fact that you did immediately think of Talented Mr. Ripley makes me think that you think about this question the way I do, um, because that was my first innate answer when I first was- Oh, really?... 19:16 thinking about this and talking about this. Yeah. Um, it's beyond, like, obvious Italian coastline. It's, like, linen shirts drying on a clothesline. It's wealth, it's sweat. 19:33 It's, like, lust and desire. And to me, when I first started thinking about this, that's like, "Okay, what are the notes of this movie that would make it smell beautiful?" 19:44 Um, but then the more I started talking to people, the more I realized that that's not how everybody engages with this question, because some people are like, "Well, what is a movie that gives me a feeling I would want to bottle?" 19:57 Mm. Um, or, "What is my favorite movie and how can I engage in that in a new way?" 20:03 Which are all super valid ways to talk about it, but yeah, I, I, I certainly came at it first and foremost from, like, a very sensory perspective. Have you ever seen the film, um, The Duke, The Duke of Burgundy? 20:15 No, I have not. Um, it's a little obscure. It's, like, a, a lesbian romance, erotic film, and one or both of them studies moths. 20:28 Um, and in the credits for the movie, there is a perfumer credited, but it's just, like, a vibes thing. So- Oh, I love that... uh, I thought that was so cool when I found that out. 20:44 Um, I was like, "More films should do that, and they should actually have a perfumer. They shouldn't just credit them as if there was an on-set perfumer." But yeah, Marie Antoinette also very fragrant. Is that... 20:57 Can we say that? Yeah. The funniest thing I think about, uh, when I added Marie Antoinette to that list is 'cause it was one of my friend's answers, and she loves that movie. 21:06 It's one of her favorite movies of all time, I mean, and it is so sensory from every perspective. 21:12 But it was a few years ago, and since then she's just been, like, dealing with a lot of different, like, health and sensory things, and she cannot deal with artificial scent at all now. Mm. 21:24 Um, and she's like, "Yeah, I have to change my answer. That would overwhelm me and give me a headache." [laughs] I think that's valid. 21:29 Um, well, you know, I don't know if you talked about how, like, Marie Antoinette used to perfume her sheep. Um- Her sheep? Mm-hmm. 21:38 Yeah, but the smell of, like, perfumed sheep's wool, I mean, that would be overwhelming for me. But I would still like to smell it once in my life. Yeah, and I mean, the 21:50 unbelievably fragrant, like, flower fields that are on Versailles, and then she's just, like, eating, like, macarons and cake and everything. 21:57 And, like, she's just, like, soaping up and, like, there's so much smell in that movie. [laughs] Let them wear cake. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, sorry, that's terrible. But- Okay, wait. 22:07 Something I want, something I wanted to talk about. You wrote this piece, uh, for Cosmo back in 2023 railing against the idea of buying a perfume because it fits a prescribed aesthetic because it's like- Yeah... 22:17 you know, ins- you're, you're talking about, like, TikTokkers being like, "If you want the clean girl aesthetic, you should buy this perfume." Um, so this seems to be a bit of a soapbox for you, so stand on it. 22:30 Yeah, I am against it. Um, [laughs] I think I'm gonna say an incredibly big, ridiculous statement. 22:38 I think it, like, goes against the idea of, like, humanity, and what I mean by that [laughs] is that, like, you cannot decide for yourself what you think smells good. 22:49 You cannot say, like, "Because I dress in black, I should have X, Y, Z perfume. Because I'm, like, coquettish, I should like the, these perfumes that smells like candied violets." 23:02 What y- what goes into what you like to smell is, like, everything that has led you to this point in your life. 23:09 It's, like, all of your scent memory, and it's like, you can't just make that decision for yourself, and I think it's denying us so much nuance to say that we can. 23:20 It flattens the essence of who you are, and obviously it's, like, a bigger conversation about, like, prescribed aesthetics and the internet in, in general. It's like, it's similar to music. 23:31 It's like, yes, obviously we have taste. Obviously we can choose to be interested or go down certain rabbit holes, but at the end of the day, like, what did your parents put on in the car? Like, 23:44 what, like, came to you at the exact right moment in your life? 23:48 And I think to try and always assemble a collage of what we think is the coolest version of things is to, like, deny yourself your own history and your own experiences, basically. Yeah, I love that. 24:02 I, like, also think it's very cool when somebody's perfume, their signature perfume does not necessarily match what you would expect. Yeah. Like, with somebody who has-... 24:15 stronger masculine energy is wearing something more feminine or gourmand. Um, I think there's something really exciting about that. I do, too. Um, and I think that, like, 24:29 I think there's something that can be really, um, I don't know, like, introspective to start thinking about, like, "Okay, well, what are the smells you actually love and why?" Like, I 24:44 w- where I grew up, we had a little, like, rosemary, uh, rosemary bush next to our house that my mom grew. 24:51 And I, you know, a lot of people, I think, when they smell mo- rosemary, they kind of associate it with, like, Thanksgiving and turkey. It's a very, like, autumnal cooking scent. Mm-hmm. 25:02 But I think of summer because of when this plant would bloom, and like being near my house. 25:07 And I think there's, like, such a beauty in individual experience that gets decimated when we decide to overly curate aspects of our life. Yeah. And that is my soapbox. So what are you wearing today? 25:22 [laughs] I love this soapbox. [laughs] Uh, I am- Share something. I do. Uh, I'm wearing Debaser by DS & Durga. Um, and I have talked about this on the podcast. 25:32 I don't remember if it's one of the ones that's been published yet or not. 25:35 But I, I love them because they will, like, always put, like, a playlist with their perfumes that, um, the perfumer kind of organizes and puts together, which I love cross-sensory. I think that's really fun. 25:48 But I like this because I like the smell of figs. Um, and I think they do a really good fig. Yeah. I like that, too. Debaser's really nice. 25:55 Um, my everyday perfume, which I'm not wearing today, is also DS & Durga, and it's, uh, Bowmakers. And so I- Oh, Bowmaker's is cool. Yeah. 26:07 It's really nice, but it's, you know, to go back to the sort of like juxtaposition, like if I go out to an event and I'm wearing like a little black dress and I smell like wood and tar, I think that's very interesting. 26:20 Um- It is. It's super cool. And but today, I'm wearing She Was An Anomaly by Taller de Orange. I am a fan of, of that one. I really like, um, of theirs Exit the King- Mm... 26:35 which in terms of expectation of what you think something should smell like versus what it, what it does, all the copy around, like, Exit the King is about like revolution and stuff, and then it smells like soap. 26:47 [laughs] Yeah. It's a little spicy, too, right? I think I have a sample somewhere. Yeah. Um, it has that little... I think there's something a little peppery in that maybe. Mm. Mm. I'm not wearing a perfume today myself. 27:02 Francis, you're so good. Uh, though I do... The one I have been wearing most often recently is also a fig scent, uh, which is L'Arrede de Fici, I think, by Inverso Profumi. Ooh, I have not smelled that one. 27:14 But if it's fig, I'll probably like it. It is. It's figgy. It's very good. Um, I, uh, something we were talking about a second ago, uh, you know, was making me think is, 27:25 uh, it's probably either, either scent or touch is like the most, um, marginalized sense in the internet age. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In that, you know, 27:38 it, it's all, like, kind of visually and auditorily experienced people sitting... you know, walking around on your phone or sitting in your house on your computer as we all are now. Um, yeah. 27:49 Do you think it's scent or touch is the more marginalized sense? I know where you're going with this, and it's a trick question, Carly. I'm not even sure I know this. 27:57 He's gonna start talking, he's gonna start talking about friction. Well, no, I think it's, it's d- why does it have to be either/or? 28:02 Why can't it just be the quality of friction and the way that interacts with our senses? Wait, I wanna hear more about this friction. So- Yeah, Francis, go. Okay. 28:11 This is, this is something [laughs] this is something we, we talk about very often on the pod. Um, but the idea that, you know, digital software, sports gambling, it's all about removing friction, right? 28:24 And friction is literally life. A totally frictionless experience is death, et cetera. 28:31 Um, but I read a piece, um, earlier this week by Kyla Scanlon titled The Most Valuable Commodity in the World Is Friction, which is probably the best articulation of this idea that I've seen at all. Um, 28:48 one thing I like... Here, I'm gonna read one quote. "What we're witnessing isn't just an extension of the attention economy but something new, the simulation economy. 28:57 It's not just about keeping you glued to the screen anymore. It's about convincing you that any sort of real-world effort is unnecessary, that friction itself is obsolete. 29:06 The simulation doesn't just occupy your attention," right? "Instead, it replaces the very notion that engagement should require effort," which is wild. 29:15 Um, and I guess, I mean, in the context of scent and touch, obviously touch is, is friction, right? Um, and, but scent, too, I think is something... Like I think of, uh- Well, the molecules have to be present. Yeah. 29:32 You know? They have to... The, the molecules have to go into your nose, and your brain has to process them. That's why, you know, when somebody's having a stroke and there's this, um- Mm... 29:43 this kind of famous hallucination of, like, the smell of burning toast. Mm-hmm. What makes it hallucination is none of those molecules are present. 29:51 And, um, I had such a good conversation about this when we launched Knob, um, with Maxwell, who does UFO perfumes, about, like, where scent lives. 'Cause you can have, um... 30:04 You know, can you really have, like, a scent memory that is so strong it feels like smelling it again? 30:10 'Cause, you know, we have these touch memories, and we have these memories of, like, what something tasted like-But the sort of like tip of the tongue phenomenon for a smell or a memory of a smell The literal molecules. 30:25 Yeah, we don't talk about it as much. 30:27 The one other thing I wanted to talk about with, with smell and friction is, uh, like, the idea of, like, being, being on the subway and, and smelling things, whether it's food or whether, whether it's other people, and I think that's kind of like... 30:39 Like, o- one more quote from this, um, kinda Scanlon piece. 30:42 She says, she's kind of talk- she, she talks about that, um, New York Mag West Village girlies piece, um, and how, like, that is an example of, like, an environment that is so curated such as to remove certain frictions. 30:56 So in that context she says, "This is the economic story. Friction has become a class experience. 31:02 Wealth has always helped smooth over bumps, but when the physical world is such a mess and the digital world is so easy, it's simple to curate the digital into the physical if you have money." 31:13 Uh, which, uh, this is not exactly what she's saying, but I, I'm, I am thinking specifically about, like, I think it was, like, a Dr. 31:20 Ali Luke's moment on the timeline six months ago and somebody talking about, like, how there was somebody on the subway that smelled really bad, and Ali Luke's coming in being like, "Why is that something you're, like, concerned about or, like, care about," et cetera, et cetera. 31:33 Um, but yeah, I think 31:36 that, like, you know, in this time when Sean Duffy, whatever the, you know, Secretary of Transportation is talking about how unsafe the subways are, et cetera, and in fact, you know, subway crime has dropped with, uh, congestion pricing because more people are dri- riding the subway. 31:51 [laughs] I'm not fully sure where I'm going with this, but I think the point is, um, scent is, like, high friction scent in social settings is, like, li- like, tolerance of that is a moral good. 32:07 Yeah, and I also think, like, there's almost this thing where it's like if you're... 32:14 If you accept the fact that, like, you're going to encounter negative friction in your life through smell or otherwise, and that's just a part of the experience of being a person moving through the world, then you also get to accept the good version of that, which, like, one of my favorite smells in the entire world is when you're walking down, like, a New York City subway and all of a sudden you get a blast from underground from a laundry room or, like, a laundromat or something. 32:43 I know that smell. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, and it just comes up so clean, like this, like, cloud, and it's, like, really wonderful and beautiful. 32:52 And where my, like, freshman year dorm was, uh, there was a patch of that nearby, and it's also where, like, a lot of people would go outside to smoke cigarettes. 33:02 And when I'd be, like, walking home from a class and it'd be freezing or something, you would get this, like, first smell of, like, cigarette smoke and then this blast of clean laundry, and like, ugh, what a, like, moment to feel alive. 33:15 It's great. Oh, man. It, like, rushes your blood. It's, it's good. There's one exit down by, like... I guess, I don't know what, like, we're calling the neighborhood now. You could- In the Ocu- Play realtor... 33:27 basically- Make it up. [laughs] Well, you know, around, around the Oculus, like Brookfield Place, but, um, there's- Not Ground Zero... not Ground Zero, and it's not, like, if you get... 33:38 If you don't exit the subway through the Oculus. I think it's, like, the one, if you come- Isn't that just Tribeca? I guess it's essentially Tribeca... or, yeah, I guess it's Tribeca. Anyways. FiDi-ish. 33:46 If you- there's one exit of the one, uh, that just up to the street, not through the Oculus, not through any of these new buildings. Um, and it's next to a, eh, bodega deli, and it smells like bacon. Mm-hmm. 34:01 Because the bacon smell from the, you know, the cook in the back of the deli w- making people's bacon, egg, and cheeses gets pumped into the subway stairway. Ugh. 34:11 And, you know, I would always come up and be like, "This is working so well on me because now I'm hungry." Mm-hmm. But I'm curious, Carly, like, who are your favorite writers, commenters on perfume? 34:23 You mentioned, mentioned Rachel Syme before. Where, you know, where are you kind of, like, getting your inspiration? Or do you get the best inspiration about perfume elsewhere? Um, it is... 34:36 I mean, I will always first and foremost say Rachel Syme. 34:40 I think she is one of the great writers about fragrance that we have, and I think what's really great about her writing about fragrance is she's also a culture writer, so kind of everything is funneled through it. 34:55 Um, and she probably was the most transformative for me in the way I started thinking about fragrance. But also, Sable Yong is incredible who I ha- was the first episode of my podcast. 35:07 I also love, uh, shout out to Haloscope. Audrey Rabinowitz, um, does a really, really incredible job writing about fragrance. Um, 35:16 it's funny because I guess of the surge of the past few years, there's been now such a, um, a bigger want for fragrance writing, so there's a lot of people doing great stuff. 35:25 But I would say, yeah, those three I think are, are really fantastic. Yeah. I'm a fan as well. Well, should we do some, like, rapid fire questions? Yes. Let... Wait. Okay, I'm gonna start it. [laughs] Okay. 35:39 Um, we will take turns. What does the internet smell like? Oh, wow. Um, I would say the internet smells like almost nothing. Um, but it's a very, like... 35:54 There are these certain fragrances that are designed to almost give, like, a niceness, like, just sterile but nice. 36:04 Um, I think of, like, Myth by Ellis Brooklyn, which, like, people online say that, like, it's, like, the go-to fragrance for, like, dental hygienists because they're so close to other people, they don't want anything offensive. 36:16 Um, that or, like, um-The fragrance enhancer DS & Durga does, I don't know what I think it's called Mm-hmm... 36:24 these things that, uh, are almost nothing but a little p- a little pleasant or even designed to bring out the smell of something else is what I would say for the internet. Mm. I don't know what... 36:36 It does smell like something to me. I don't know. I'm gonna say- I, I, I really like it... I'm gonna say printer paper. It smells like, I believe it smells like iso E super is the main, I think, component. Hm. Um, sorry. 36:47 Printer pa- printer paper is a good answer. So printer paper, cotton candy, and- What?... a burnt circuit. 36:53 I think also though, like, saying cotton candy, I get where you're coming from, but if anything, I think it would be, like, a candy that's supposed to taste like cotton candy. [laughs] Oh, wait, okay, how about this? 37:04 [laughs] Uh, bubblegum that has already been chewed. [laughs] Yeah. It's, it's... If you're gonna go in that sort of, like, sweetness direction, it's that really, like, artificial sweetness that's, like, too much. 37:18 [laughs] I would say, though, what my, my earlier... Like, I was trying to think, like, if this has changed, as the internet has changed, my perception of the internet has changed. My... 37:26 I mean, this is, okay, this is, this one's a g- I guess, a bit cheating. Um, like one of those people who misunderstands your question about what movies smell like. Mm-hmm. 37:34 But I would say it smells like a wooden desk from back when the internet was, like, you know, the home computer. Yeah. 37:43 I mean, in that way I'm like, "Oh, the internet, like, smells like the computer room in, like, the house I grew up in." E- exactly, yeah. Um- And computers do have a smell, or, like, they used to. 37:54 Like, desktop computers- They did... especially- Like, the heat coming off of them... the hard drive. The heat. Yeah. Yeah. That is, like, I think, what you were talking about with circuit smell. Mm-hmm. 38:02 Like, I was gonna say old iPhone or broken iPhone. Like, the old iPhone that you don't use anymore but you feel, like, weird throwing it out- Yeah, I have one of those... so it's, like, your nightstand drawer... 38:10 two of those, actually... with, like, crumbs and all this other stuff. Um, it, inside of my nightstand drawer, it does have a smell. Mm-hmm. 38:18 Mine smells like a, like a kind of rank perfume bottle I actually used to keep in there. [laughs] Oh, okay. Um, well, it all comes full circle. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what does LinkedIn smell like? [laughs] Ugh. 38:30 Carly, are you on LinkedIn? We did mention that you have a, a bit of a sparse social media presence. Um, yeah. It's because, I mean, part of it is because I've, you know, I've had to go to the LinkedIn of it all. 38:43 I've had to keep my employment, so I've wanted to keep it pretty clean. Um, what does LinkedIn smell like? I mean, almost to that effect, soap. [laughs] It's like... 38:55 [laughs] Like, like public bathroom hand soap or, or what? Oh my gosh, you know that, like, pink soap you get in public bathrooms sometimes? Yes. 39:04 That very specific pink soap, I feel like that's what LinkedIn smells like to me. Exactly. Um, I feel like it smells like a business traveler hotel. Mm. So just, like, mid-budget, kind of near the airport. 39:19 Um, everything is, like, excessively fine. Yeah. The comforter is, like, some combination of blue, red, and purple, in case you forget that, like, red and blue make purple. Um, and the art is obviously atrocious. 39:36 I'm gonna say it smells like the inside of a Staples and, uh, maybe top notes of money. Mm-hmm. Money is a- Of dollar bills... I like the way dollar bills smell. Yeah. [laughs] No shit. 39:47 What are they, what are they putting in those things? [laughs] Uh, capital? Cotton. [laughs] I don't know. Yeah. Um- Okay... 39:55 I would also say there's a potential that it smells like, just a little bit, like, sweaty around the edges of just this sort of desperation of, like, when you do- Mm-hmm... 40:04 have to be on LinkedIn a lot, it's because you're in, like, a moment of desperation. So true. So true. And for me, that's every day. [laughs] What about Twitter? Ugh, like, old Twitter or, like, current Twitter? 40:16 The, I leave, I leave it up to you. Both. Oh. Or Daisy, you had a spec- specification? Well, I was gonna say both, but you can either or. Both separately. How has it changed? 40:25 Um, I think old Twitter for me is, like, I grew up in a small town, and every year there would be a, uh, four-day family fun fair. And it, you know, it's like one of those, like, little traveling carnivals that come by. 40:38 And you walk in and it, like... 40:39 Oh, it smells like, like funnel cake and, like, summer and teenagers, and it's just, like, an explosion of a lot going on that, like, when you're young you, like, want that overstimulation 'cause it's like, "Oh, that's so fun." 40:51 [laughs] So it's just like, "Oh, it's all these voices coming at me," like... [laughs] 'Cause Twitter used to, used to be fun. Mm-hmm. We had one of those carnivals too, at, 41:00 around July 4th, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I don't know why that's such a profound memory for me. I- Um, yeah... the, I mean, a summer f- or a summer fair is a profound memory. It's like a... It's... 41:17 They're all the same, um, in terms of where they go, but it's so colored by your own, like, history and experience. I love a fair. [laughs] Yeah. Wait, okay, here's one. Um, what book do you wanna smell like? Hm. 41:32 My bookshelf is right over here. That's what I'm looking... [laughs] This one's actually really, this one's much harder than movie I think. 41:38 I mean, I feel like the easy answer I could give would be, like, because I just mentioned that, you know, Talented Mr. 41:44 Ripley was very core, would be, like, The Neapolitan Quartet by Elena Ferrante because it's kind of- Mm-hmm... uh, along the same lines of- Italian... Yeah, Italian. But, uh, certainly less wealthy. 41:56 Um- [laughs] This podcast brought to you by the Italian Tourism Board. [laughs] Truly. They should sponsor us. That'd be great. They should. Oh, you know what? Um- [laughs]... maybe Marilynne Robinson's Housekeeping. 42:08 Ooh. It is such, like, a sensory- Carly, that's a very classy answer. [laughs] Thank you. It's, there's so much, like, rain and, like, descriptions of, like, wet soil. Mm-hmm. 42:21 Um, and, like, going out onto lakes and, like-The dampness in a home and, like, kitchens, it, it feels very, like... It's, like, wet, and earthy, and domestic, uh, in a really lovely way, I think. That's my answer. 42:39 Daisy, do you have one? Oh, I sure do. [laughs] Um, my answer is Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld. I don't know a single thing about it. Um, I actually think you would find it very interesting. 42:51 I, for a long time, would read it once a year. Mm-hmm. Um, my father-in-law, who was the dean of a boarding school similar to the one in the book- Whoa... 43:02 uh, or was a dean, was like, "This is the worst book ever written." Um- [laughs]... I mean, it was fascinating to me because that was not my world. 43:12 I, and I was reading it, you know, from a public high school that was, like... looked like a prison- Mm-hmm... but then went to college with people who were coming out of that world. 43:22 Um, so part of, like, my appreciation for the book as taking place on this boarding school campus with somebody who doesn't feel like she fits in there and has a, a pretty bad complex about it, um, is, like, the voyeurism of it. 43:36 But there's also, like, such specific details about being a teenage girl, like the way that the popular girls', like, wet hair would smell- Mm... and just how expensive everyone would look just by looking, like, 43:52 clean, um, and wearing certain things and using their, like, mane and tail horse shampoo on their blonde hair. Um, and yeah, I think also the cover is very... 44:07 feels, like, very scented, because the cover is, like, famously a pink and green ribbon belt just around the front- Mm... of the book. 44:15 And yeah, it's just, like, it, it really captures, like, how formative your first experience of, like, desperately wanting something or someone is to the formation of- To desire... your character. Desire. 44:28 Oh, it's a- all about to desire and, um, the things that the narrator desires. And anyway, I, I still think it's a fantastic book- Mm... 44:40 and I think it's very rooted in the author's personal experience, although, of course, we separate the art from the artist. And, um, actually the- Big Woody Allen fan, you. [laughs] No, not Woody Allen. 44:55 Um, I have other artists that I separate from their art. [laughs] Ugh. Like, such as Kanye West. [laughs] I think New Twitter smells like Kanye West maybe. Ugh. Um, it is, it is, um, what you're talking about too with... 45:13 It made me think of, um, one of the people I, I interviewed for the podcast that hasn't come out yet. She was talking a bit about, like, the smell of, like, having roommates, um- [laughs]... 45:25 like, when you're, like, in your, like- Sorry. I gotta stop laughing so loud... late teens, early 20s, mid-20s. 45:30 And, like, it sounds like that would be, like, a negative connotation, but what she was talking about was, like, that smell when someone you, like, live with opens the bathroom door after a shower, and you get that blast of, like, someone else's products. 45:44 [laughs] Mm-hmm. Mm. Okay. I have a similar memory to that, Carly. Did you go to summer camp? I did go to summer camp. Okay. So our showers were all in, like, a separate building. 45:54 It's just, like, stalls of, like, the shower hall. And you didn't wanna, like... Everyone only had, like, a certain amount of time to shower in the free period, so you weren't supposed to shave in there- [gasps]... 46:05 'cause then you would, like, take up too much time. Yep. I- So you had to sit... I'm bringing it back for you, right? Yeah. So you sit on the wooden platform outside. There was a hose. 46:12 It would never be hot enough, and you would shave your legs in the hose while other girls were showering. 46:16 But every time the door opened, it would just be, like, a blast of, like, Garnier Fructis and Pantene and that little, like, baby shampoo that's shaped like a fish. And that smell, very profound. 46:30 Similarly, like, when I was at summer camp... Again, yeah, you never had time to shave when you were in the shower. 46:35 And if you were at an age where you were a camper at summer camp but old enough that you were shaving your legs, you're in this, like, very, um, I, I think especially for girls, very, like, profound moment in your life between, like, girlhood and, like, adulthood and, like, maybe just on, on, like, the cusp of being a real teenager. 46:55 And we would, like, when you had, like, a free period that wasn't an activities-based thing, like, that you could just kinda do whatever you wanted, a lot of the girls would use that to, like, sit out on our cabin porch with, like, a bucket of, like, soapy water and just, like, shave on the porch. 47:11 Mm. And it's this, like, sort of collision of this, like, a little bit of, like, sadness of, like, growing up as a woman where, like, you have a free period to do anything and you're using it on body maintenance- Mm... 47:23 which will, like, color the rest of your adult life as a woman. [laughs] And all... 47:27 But also this, like, joyous thing of, like, sitting outside with, like, other girls and, like, talking and bonding, and it all, like, smells like shaving cream. 47:36 So yes, I, that did bring back quite a, quite a sense memory for me. Yeah, I mean, we were at a girls camp next to the boys camp. And, 47:48 you know, I remember always being scolded about, like, "Don't think about what the boys are doing. Don't worry about what the boys are doing," 'cause of course, like, you're doing something. The boys come by in a canoe. 47:57 Every head turns, and they're interested in what the girls are doing. And it's like the first... It's sort of your initiation into, um, [laughs] 48:06 like, I don't wanna say, like, being, like, male-centered, but it's like my... The experience of camp that you had, um, obviously it's about, like, what's happening between the women. 48:17 And you hear from people that went to all-girls schools, like, it's almost like it was almost worse for them. Um, there was no buffer. Everything, all of the social hierarchy was women, woman to woman. 48:29 But with, you're next to the boys camp, like-There's a part of you that's always thinking about what are the boys doing and when are we seeing them, for better or worse. That was my experience. 48:40 I can't relate to this at all. I didn't go to summer camp. [laughs] Oh, that's all right. No? I did surf camp, um, but that's not really like sleepover [laughs] or anything like that. Um, 48:51 I was gonna say my book- Oh, please... that I would smell like, which Daisy's gonna roll her eyes 'cause this, this book is one... 48:57 [laughs] This is one of the three books that I've been reading while we've been doing this podcast- Not Yuppies?... and I've brought up many times. Not Yuppies? It's not Yuppies. I don't want to smell like The Yuppies. 49:04 No, it's Hill by Jean Giono. Um, which- Oh, okay... I mean, going back, my favorite scents are, are, are nature-y. Uh, I've got this tomato leaf one. I've got this fig one. Um- I've smelled the tomato leaf. It... 49:17 on him, it's quite good. It's nice. It's nice. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, growing up on a farm, like I think of like scents I would... 49:22 ever since I would want to smell like, like walking into the greenhouse, the basil greenhouse, and it's like hot and humid and basil-y, or like the, a dirt and like, you know, an undertone of kind of like fresh manure [laughs] 49:33 that's been, that's spread, been spread on the plants, um, that kind of thing. So Hill is about like... I mean, it's really short. It's like 100 some pages, and there's no chapters. 49:43 But it's about like nature kind of revolting, um, against this tiny village. 49:48 Village, it's like, you know, eight, 10 people up on this hillside in like the, the French mountains in like the '30s, and, you know, there's like, this fire erupts, and nature's just kind of revolting against them, and they're kind of like lost in the drift. 50:01 Um, 50:02 and so I think, I think I'd like to smell like that and like this kind of, this similar way as this deep figgy scent I have where there's like, it's dirt, and it's like, and it's burnt trees, and it's like fresh grass, and it's dry grass, and it's like, you know, cold spring water, that kind of thing. 50:22 Yeah. Well, this podcast is brought to you by Big Fig. [laughs] Figs, try 'em. Figs, try 'em. Mm-hmm. That's, [laughs] that's, that's their tagline. Figs, try 'em. By Big Fig. Is there such a thing as big figs? 50:35 Figs, try 'em. I, I, and I feel like I don't even- Yes, they have to have a lobby. [laughs] Are you kidding me? Everything does. 'Cause my... 50:39 I don't know if Monsan- I don't know if like Monsanto has their, you know, corny fingers in the, in the fig industry. I don't- Mm... 'cause you don't even see figs at the grocery store like that. 50:47 It's, it's, I feel like it's a farmer's market thing. GMO figs. 'Cause the wasps have to get in there- Oh, yeah... whatever, right? Mm-hmm, yeah, okay. I don't know. Is that even a thing? Do they really have to? Ah. 50:57 Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld. Um, I, I'd- Full of wasps. [laughs] Okay, last thing about, uh, m- m- media I would like to smell like. Um, 51:07 my favorite podcast that I've been listening to recently is Fashion Neurosis by Bella Freud, by Bella Freud. Are you guys familiar with this? No. No. 51:17 That's a long- Um, Bella Freud, daughter of Lucian Freud, granddaughter- Oh... or great-granddaughter of Sigmund Freud, fashion designer. Very chic. British. So chic. It's... I... 51:25 This is like the podcast I listen to on Sundays when I'm like, you know, milling around the house, doing some chores. 51:32 I like don't really wanna think about like the work I have to do, and it's, it's so great 'cause she just has this quiet British voice. I'm not... 51:39 That's the most I'm gonna try to attempt to do it, 'cause it, it would just sh- shame me and her. [laughs] Um, but it's so good. 51:46 The best one she does with Susie Cave, uh, who I think is also a fashion designer, Nick Cave's wife. Mm. And they're like best friends, and they... So the, like the way they're talking, it's just like this. 51:56 And at the end it's like, "Thank you, Bella. It's been so fun talking to you." [laughs] So I wanna smell like that because it's, it's luxurious. It's like, it's, it's fashionable. It just kind of is a perfume already. 52:07 Um, but I, but I do highly recommend this podcast. Well, uh, if that's what you wanna smell like, then I think you need to sample some Penhaligon's. Some what? 52:16 Uh, Penhaligon's is a heritage British, uh, fragrance company, fragrance house as they would say. Mm. Uh, they have lots of ti- uh, ties to the throne. [laughs] They've been around since like the like 1890s or something. 52:30 Um, yeah, they are that like posh, quiet English fragrance house. Mm. Mm. Have you, um... Uh, okay. The, the only, [laughs] the only British perfumer I've smelled, uh, Perfumer H. Are you familiar? 52:48 I have smelled that. Yeah. Good, good, good stuff. [laughs] I kind of want to smell like the, the slightly pink hue of the Financial Times. Ooh. [laughs] I love... Well, uh, I mean, the smell of newspaper. I, 53:03 I did write a piece, uh, for Haloscope a little bit about like smells that are leaving our world and how they- Mm... become so like lovely and beautiful to us, and one of them I think is like the smell of print media. 53:16 [laughs] Mm. Mm-hmm. Um, and newspaper especially. Because it has to be printed every morning, it has that like inkiness to it- Freshness. Mm... 53:25 and freshness, and there's like the difference between the smell of like a new newspaper and like an old newspaper that's been sitting in the corner for a while. There, it's, it's a very fragrant media form. 53:37 [laughs] We... So one thing we like to get into a little bit is how the sausage gets made, and so we didn't... We talked about the inspiration for the podcast, but we didn't talk about like how did it happen. 53:47 [laughs] Like, did you bring this idea to the magazine? You know, what... Have you agreed, "Okay, we're gonna do one season and then see how we feel about it?" 53:58 Um, I will start by saying, uh, I am a, um, a frequent and big proponent of, uh, the use of the cold email. Um, so I'll, I'll start from there. But, um, 54:12 one thing that I, I, I feel like I have been missing or so lately is, 54:18 um, like real websites with like articles and features and things and, uh, especially like real writing for websites that isn't like e-commerce based or listicles. And, um, 54:32 a little while ago, maybe like a year ago, year and a half ago, um, I saw, um-An article come across my timeline on Twitter from the very, very brand new Haloscope that was written by Savannah Eaton Bradley, and she's also the creator and the editor-in-chief of Haloscope. 54:48 Um, and it was a piece she had written about, [sighs] it was about, like, underwear, I believe. It was about, like, the, the underwear from, oh my God, the Tom Cruise movie with Nicole Kidman. Uh- Eyes Wide Shut... 55:05 Eyes Wide Shut. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's the, it's like the negligee, the underwear, the very simple, like, little camisole- Mm-hmm... that Nicole Kidman wears in Eyes Wide Shut, um, and how there's, like, 55:14 a kind of a lack of sensuality in, like, what's in, like, underwear right now, underwear and bras. 55:20 And I read the piece and I thought it was really fantastically written and thoughtful and great, and I wanted to, like, be involved in some way [laughs] with Haloscope. 55:30 Um, I, like, went and I, like, kinda scoured their website, and I was like, "This is full of really, like, thoughtful, intelligent writing about fashion and beauty," which, 55:38 um, if you look at a lot of kind of the old media magazines that used to be the places for thoughtful writing about fashion and beauty, it's mostly e-commerce now. Mm. Uh, not entirely, but mostly. 55:52 Um, and I just thought they were doing something great, and I had this pitch rolling around that I had sent out a couple places that nobody had, uh, ever written back to me about, which ended up being this, uh, kind of pitch about the disappearance of certain smells from the world. 56:06 It was really about, like, [smacks lip] 56:08 the rise of the smell of the cannabis note in perfume, and how that w- my theorizing that it was because the actual smell of cannabis was kind of disappearing from the world, so it was becoming romantic. 56:20 Um, I pitched it to them, they took it, and I had, like, a really great correspondence with Savannah while I was writing it. Um, 56:27 and I had had this idea for this podcast kind of knocking around, but also, like, I just kinda wanted to work with them. I thought they were cool. 56:35 And I've spent, you know, the last decade of my career as a video producer, mostly as, like, my nine-to-five. 56:42 And I sent them an email being like, "Hey, if you're ever looking to get involved in video or in audio or, like, anything, uh, in that, I'd love to be involved with you guys. I'd love to help out." 56:54 And Savannah was like, "Yeah, what are you thinking?" And I, I pitched her a whole bunch of ideas that mostly had nothing to do with me at the center of it. 57:00 It was just, I would, I could develop it, I could produce it for them. 57:03 And the, I threw on Smell That Movie at the end, which has been, like, a sort of, like, thing I've thought about for a while, and I just included the sentence, like, "This is the only idea on here that, like, I am attached to. 57:16 Like, if you take this idea, you take me too doing it." And that's the one she liked, so [laughs] that's kinda how that got made. The power of the cold email. Um- It's a beautiful thing... 57:27 y- you recorded 10 episodes for a first season, right? There's three out. Yes. Um, are there... What, what's, what's, like, a favorite moment? 57:33 Either from one of the ones that's not out or is out, like, a, I don't know, some, some movie that you thought was, like, impeccably argued or something like that. 57:41 I mean, one of the ones that's out is the Pride and Prejudice episode with Kate Lindsay, um, who does- Mm... the In Case You Missed It podcast for Slate. I've interviewed her on another podcast, yeah. 57:51 She's, yeah, she's fantastic. I loved talking with her. I loved that conversation, and I just, I love talking to people that are passionate, and she's so passionate about Pride and Prejudice. [laughs] Um, and oh my gosh. 58:06 Oh, um, there were certain ones that, like, made me have to watch a movie I had, like, never intended to watch in my life. Mm. Um- Human Centipede. [laughs] Oh my God. I, uh, I had- I would never watch that. I would... 58:20 Sorry, I would never watch that. [laughs] I, I did watch that at one point in my life, but that's just because I have an older brother. [laughs] Um, [laughs] 58:27 but I, I had, um, Dylan Adler on, who is a comedian, a fantastic comedian who I know from sketch. Um, he's great, and he picked Moana, which is a movie I'd never watched on my own. Mm-hmm. Um, and 58:44 I, not that I had anything against watching Moana, it just came out at a time in my life when I was, like, a child myself. When you were no longer a child, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, and didn't have children- Mm... 58:53 and was like, "You know, this isn't really for me." Um, I- Mm... but I do love animation, and that was, it was fun to watch something I wouldn't have kind of made myself watch anyway, and it's lovely. It's great. 59:05 I see why it was, like, the biggest thing in the world. I get it. 59:08 Um, but it also kind of raised this question to myself that was, like, fun to entertain, where it's like, well, does animation smell different than live action? Oh. 59:17 And to that matter, does hand-drawn an- animation smell different than computer-generated? Mm. Uh, which my answer to that would be yes, but, uh- Mm. I would agree... 59:28 and then also, um, I had Millie Tamariz on, who does Go Touch Grass, who's a great New York comedian. Um, and we talked about Eternal Sunshine. And- Mm... 59:38 first of all, Millie's just so funny, and I love talking to funny people. But, uh, Eternal Sunshine was a really important movie for, like, teenage Carly. 59:48 Um, and I hadn't watched it, I think since I was, like, a teenager. And I was like, "Oh, I wonder if this is gonna hold up." 59:53 And, uh, the opening of the movie started and I started crying, like, already, and I was like, "Yeah, okay. Great. Perfect." 59:59 [laughs] Uh, to the point that I think one of the fragrances I recommended to her was Tears by Rochas de Flores. Um, oh, God, I just, I was... I watched it and I was so excited to talk to her about it, and she's, 1:00:14 you know, a fantastic talker. Oh, and well, now that I'm, like, thinking about it, I'm just gonna, like... I feel like I'm just spoiling everything. 1:00:21 But- Eternal Sunshine, by the way, one of, one of many movies you've given a five on your Letterboxd. You have a, you have a uncommonly high proportion of fives on there, I'd say. 1:00:28 Well, okay, if I, if I will talk about that for a second. Um- [laughs]... I take no joy in watching a movie I know I'm not gonna like. That's number one. [laughs] Mm-hmm. Um, I'm willing to engage of course with 1:00:42 many different things, but, like, if a movie is, like-Looks like shit, I'm probably not gonna go out of my way to see it. I love going to the movies, and that's an act I spend money on. 1:00:51 [laughs] So like, I'm not gonna do that if I think the movie's gonna be garbage. Um- That's fair. And also, part of the thing is, is I love watching movies. 1:01:01 And so like if I had a great time, it might get a five because I just had a really good time [laughs] watching it. Um- I'm stingy, stingy with my fives. I'm always trying to be more negative. 1:01:11 I'm trying to give more movies 2.5s and, and lower. 1:01:15 Well, I think when you first brought up that I, that one of my most active forms of available things to look at is my Letterboxd, a, a little bit like my stomach dropped 'cause I was like, oh, I like... 1:01:27 Letterboxd to me is like one of, what I think of, I mean, it's, my mind is public so I can, I can be, I can't be protective about it. 1:01:33 But to me it's one of those like last vestiges of social media that really feels like it's for my friends. Mm-hmm. [laughs] Um, so I don't, uh, put a lot of artifice or pretense on my Letterboxd. I, which is great. 1:01:47 I'm just like, loved the movie. [laughs] Yeah. No, as you should. Um, I mean, sometimes- Anyways... when I walk- I derailed you. 1:01:55 Yeah, sometimes when I walk out of a movie and I like really have a lot of thoughts, like I think I wrote for, like a whole essay, like on Iron Claw and Zone of Interest 'cause I had like so many thoughts when I came out, but for the most part I'm just like, loved the movie. 1:02:07 Um, yeah, so another one was I, I spoke with Maddy Finney, who's another, back to our earlier thing, fantastic fragrance writer, and she also does the podcast, um, Nose Candy. She's really great. 1:02:19 And she, as I say a lot on this podcast, I am not an expert, I'm just a lover. Um, she is an expert, um, as are a few other folks I got to talk to. 1:02:31 But, um, she's an expert and she also loves movies, and again, gave me a movie I wasn't gonna watch on my own, which was Jerry Maguire, had a great time. 1:02:40 And I felt like I just learned a ton, uh, from listening to her talk, um, as same with like Emma Vernon, who I got to talk to. 1:02:49 Um, yeah, no, I mean, now I'm just, now I just feel like I'm doing promo, but I had a great time. [laughs] Well, you know, I, I, I think that's a great place to end it. We could, we could plug the pod. Yeah. 1:03:02 Go listen to Smell That Movie. Every other week, so we'll be around till like the summer. [laughs] Nice. Well- Thank you so much, Charlie... thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. 1:03:16 [outro music]
